[paula]

The government seem hell bent on inclusion but I am interested to know peoples experiences of this. Does it work? Has mainstream been good for your child? Has it been a disaster? Have you had to take your child out of mainstream? Does integration really work or does your child miss out? 

[downright]

I really dont see it as an either or debate, the thing is that differnt kids need diffent kinds of education. A child may need special help at nursery benfit from being in a mainstream primary and later at transison special school.
Problem at the moment is too may people are rrying to safe guard their resourses and not care for the child.
Funding should go with the child and therefore the parents have the choice to take the child out if school is failing their child. The present system makes no one accountable and parents no where to turn.

[maz]

Inclusion in education is a great principal as life is mainstream.
It is also a good way of breaking down the barriers between 'able' and 'special' children and adults.
BUT, you are right all children are different and have different needs and changing needs - the system needs to be both flexible enough to cope with these changing needs and diverse enough to offer a variety of settings.
What education and health authorities need to remember that inclusion is often the more expensive option, rather than the cheaper option - if it it is done right.
Special schools have a role, mainstream has a role in accommadating SEN children of all types.
 

[johnvb]

Maz, I think there are some interesting points here.  Inclusion is a great principle, but to do inclusion properly it must not be considered as the 'cheaper option' as it so often is.  Otherwise inclusion in itself becomes exclusive - for example the child may be present at the 'inclusive' activities but actually unable to partake in any of them.  No doubt across the country there are many examples of schools doing inclusion well, but also examples of schools doing it badly.

Also I think that whilst it is definitely good for some children, there are others who simply cannot follow the same curriculum at all as others in the class, so in this case I am sure it would be more damaging than good.

I'd be interested in hearing from those a few years down the line from where my family are at (one in a special school for the last couple of years, one looks likely to go to mainstream in a year or so).  What were your experiences like, mainstream or otherwise?

John

[philsmum]

I used to think mainstream schooling could be an excellent idea, but my experiences have changed my mind.  My son has attended mainstream schools throughout his education.  He is 16yrs old now, and until this last year I was quite happy.  He had 25hrs support per week, and it was with well chosen people(ie those he was able to get on with-he is autistic, but very high functioning, and with aggressive behaviour when pressurised).  They were able to shield him from "loud" teachers and children.  This changed in his last,crucial year(GCSE year).  His difficulties seemed to get forgotten about.  He would not have appropriate support in lessons, indeed sometimes none at all.  He would be expected to attend lessons with supply teachers without support.  This, we thought, had been accepted as inappropriate by the school, under any circumstance.  We asked that school give any letters about my son, to my older son as my younger son NEVER has managed to bring letters home.  They agreed, but when we were called into school because his course work wasn't done, we were told that he had been given a letter to bring home!!! Of course this means that his results will be much worse because no coursework was entered.  If this is a typical example of mainstream schooling, I recommend no child with SEN should be educated this way.  Our situation now very difficult-our son has not been allowed in school for 3 months(he was allowed back for the exams-all with a scribe)and now the council are saying they want to reduce his statement to 7hrs support,if he stays on at school(a school that couldn't cope with him with 25hrs!);if he goes to college they propose to cease to maintain his statement at all.  His education has been totally wasted, and now he is 16 mainstream seems to be happy to dump him on the scrapheap. In hindsight,I think mainstream is just a way of getting difficult children through to the age when education is no longer compulsory, and then dumping them.

[astronut]

For some children, like my son, mainstream just would not cope no matter how much money was thrown at it. It comes down to just what his disability is. He does not need physical resources, because he has no physical impairment. His disability is a social one. I have the same problem with benefits - can he do this or that? - yes, but you try and make him! I am currently appealing his DLA mobilty component because they did not look at his social impairment at all, and if I took their decision letter as gospel, you would think that it was not possible to get this unless you have a physical impairment. Wonderful thing, the internet, a treasure trove of information!
There does not seem to be a general understanding of the nature of impairments such as autism. They are not physical, not learning/cognitive(although may be associated), but SOCIAL. How then can you expect someone socially impaired to thrive in mainstream without support?

[johnvb]

The problem with any form that attempts to gather information about a special needs child is all special needs children are so unique the forms can't possibly ask the right questionsl. The DLA forms we recently filled in were full of questions about how many times a day and for how long we have to give support. With young children like ours the answer to this should really be all the time, but there wasn't an option for this! And there is no way you can get across information on the form about just how long it can take to explain things to our children, or to prepare them before going out, or to tidy away the piles of toys they strew across the house every day. I guess that's why benefits applications seem to be a bit of a lottery.

I hope your appeal went well Astronut.

[Jane]

Referring back to what Astronut said a while back about considering the social aspects of disability, I hear in the news that the government is still dragging its heels over a recommendation made 5 years ago to open up the blue badge scheme to people with autism. I advocate getting a few ministers to try taking some autistic children to the shops for a few trips!

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6585513.stm for more on this.

Jane

[nickys_gal]

Hi!
I work on a one to one basis with  little girl who has down syndrome.
I personally think that every child, whatever their disability or syndrome etc, should have the chance to enter mainstream school, with a one to one support.
The little girl I work with will be staying in mainstream school, as she is getting on very well, making friends and can take part in every activity available, with a little alteration to some things. Yes she may be a little behind the others but in no way is she considered different, apart from the fact she is alot smaller than the other children! hehe!
I think mainstream school is a brilliant idea, but obivously it's not always possible and it is up to the parents/carers at the end of the day.

[paula]

Really pleased to hear that mainstream education is working so well for the little girl that you help! The problem with education is that the placement of a child is often down to policy and finance and is not fully based on the needs of the child. We hear of so many instances where parental choice is completely ignored by the local authority and all too often children are placed in schools which are not appropriate to their needs. Would love to hear more about your experiences!

Paula

[nickys_gal]

Yeah I agree there a few cases I've heard of where parents have been totally ignored... it's really not fair in some cases.

[Littlesheep]

I think both are needed but what is needed most is GOOD schooling for all children with SEN.

So often I've seen children in special schools set targets way below what they are capable of and similarly seen children in mainstream miss out on important therapy input (e.g. SALT and OT) that would be easily accessed for them if they were in a special school.

I guess in an ideal world children would easily be able to access mixed placements so that they have specialist teaching / therapy access when necessary but can mix with mainstream peers when appropriate (be that for just over lunch time / just for certain lessons or for the majority of the day).

I think it is important for all children to be taught to achieve their full potential and not put into 'boxes' just because of their diagnoses (or lack of)

[philc]

hi

you seem to have a very balanced and learned view on this topic (take that as a compliment !)- it would be really good to have the benefit your specific views on whether or not it is mainstrem or special school placements that provide SN children with the best preparation for becoming adults (ie life coping skills) - irrespective of any academic achievement - which is the primary concern that I have for my daughter.

If you have time to offer a view it would be very much appreciated

Phil

[Speeds]

For my son's statement they actually (the LEA) wanted him to be educated in one of their Schools with a resource unit.

I chose to send my son to a local school because I wanted him to feel that he went to school int he village.

What annoys me about schooling in general as they do not seem to look at the individual - just the places the LEA has at the time.

My other reason for not sending him to a resource school was that the one they suggested - most of my friends with children wiht additional needs were taking them out as they were disgusted with the provision.

If every child really matters then every child should have what they need.  We are just fighting to get a full 30 hour statement for my son - up from his 18.9 (and whoever heard of 0.9 of an hour in the first place).  We hope to get 25 hours support.

At school my son does have some behavioural problems - not seen at home.  I feel they are manifested by some teachers.  He can have weeks where he is fine then there will be a trigger.  I will not move him from Mainstream because he is actually doing very well - despite all my whinging

What concerns me the most is that, like what I am seeing on here, we have the ability to speak up, the ability to write reports to assist us in getting what we want and also we are lucky we have a super Head teacher and SENCo.  I feel for those children whose parents, for whatever reason, are not able to do that and are in schools which, again for whatever reason, do not give the suport that I am so lucky to get.

Essay over!

[maz]

I could go on for hours about mainstream v special schools as I think there are pros and cons to both  - and that the pros and cons are different for each child, but I did hear something interesting this week - a throw-away comment that spoke volumes.

Somebody who works in special education and is trying to push the inclusion agenda with families whose children attend special schools said 'although the parents support the idea of mainstreaming, they cling to going to sending their child to the special school 1 or 2 days a week because they know they'll get the therpay there'.

In Dorset for some, sad but true.